Wir haben die Temp der Sättel gemessen. Bei harter GP Nutzung kommt der 9660 ans Limit, verkaufen mittlerweile auch häufiger den 665er. Allerdings würde auch ich erstmal andere Beläge testen. Bei mir am M2 ist ein Endless N35S zB doppelt so schnell verschlissen wie ein Pagid RST3… Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

So you think its ok giving back NEW discs and telling me to use brake cleaner? Man coooome on, please just think about it... I´m really loosing my mind, that you think its ok deliver back NEW discs like that. There is no discussion about that, that this is just WRONG. And the brackets and bells cannot be designed wrong, like i said.... The Float is NOT changed because of the bells. The level of loat is ONLY changed by the used bobbins.

I already said im out of this, but since @VikingPowerPower is continue to give false information, i decided to give a last update from my side explaining why the statements made are wrong. @Bastorsaid this could have been a good discusstion, so i will try to fill my posting with information which adds value besides correcting false statements. First: There are different systems on how to achieve float in a disc/bell setup: Float in the Bell This is what´s mostly used by Brembo: You take a disc which has "normal" mounting holes (the name for those mounting option is "bolted") and connect it with a bell/hat which makes the whole piece floating. The bell has bigger holes then the screw which are used to mount the bell to the disc. To "fill out this bigger hole", some hardware called bobbins are used. To prevent the disc/bell combination from rattling Anti Rattle hardware is used, which preloads the connection. This is called "Float in the Bell" and can be used with a bolted disc (no matter from which brand) to achieve a full floating kit. It looks like this: This system is also used in some OEM cars with brembo brakes, because it combines the good things of floating discs (like stated, fewer heat cracks, better heat distribution etc.) with streetfriendly noise level, because of the anti rattle hardware. The disadvantage with this system is, that the bell needs to be changed on every second disc (or something like this) because it wears on the connection and "the bigger holes" in which the bobbin sits. Float in the Disc This is the System which is used all over in Motorsports. Here you do not have the "bigger hole" in the bell, but you have it in the disc. That means the Bobbin, which "fills this bigger hole" is placed in the disc and on the bell there are "normal" mounting holes. The Float is in the disc and not in the bell. Looking at the bell you just see a normal nut on top of it. That this design is floating can only be seen from the inside. It looks like this: You can find this system among a lot of motorsport cars: M4 GT3 (F and G-Series), all BTCC cars, M3 GT2, M6 GT3 and soo much more, i think you get it. You can read it on the AP page, but cars with those AP Racing discs with float in the disc won all sort of championships: F1, Nascar Cup, IMSA, Super GT, DTM etc. etc. I would say going to a official race almost 90% of the cars are using AP Racing discs with float in the disc and this system. PFC for example also has discs with this design, go check out the brake kit on a Golf VII TCR- same design of fastening the bell to disc, but discs made from PFC compiled with AP Racing calipers. Why didnt they use the other PFC design? Only VW knows. The problem with this system is, that by design there is no preload on the connection. If Bell, disc and bobbins are new (this varies also on disc, bobbin combination) you cannot feel the float (which is what @Fox906bgand @VikingPowerexperienced) but depending on which disc and bobbin combination is used and how old they are the brakes, especially when cold, will make extremely loud noises, because you hear the disc "wobbles" around due to the float without preload. Although i understand, that noises shouldn´t be an issue for race cars, for us the sounds you got with those types of setups were not bearable. Even just driving the car from your garage at the ring to the entrance will sound so awful, that we would have a alot of customers complaining if we would have sold it like that. So what we came up with was the idea to use the brembo anti rattle hardware to give a little pretension on the connection. We basically used the idea of the float in the bell connection to make the better float in the disc system "streetable". We tried if it´s necesarry to use 12 (on a disc with 12 holes) or 6 of those anti rattle sheets and we found out that with 6 the awful noise is totally gone, while the pretension is still not too big, so the disc can still expand during usage on the track. It doesnt matter if this little clip sits 100% straight on the disc- all it needs to do is give a little preload and this is what it´s doing perfectly fine. Those 2 designs mentioned are widely used. PFC came up with their own design of discs and fixing the bell to the disc. I think their design is nice and it probably works good as well. But stating this is used among racing teams and the AP Design of our kit is not is again: Just nonsense. Since you keep yelling our bells were designed wrong: In case of this Float in the disc setup the bell does not have any special design requirements. It needs to fullfill the PCD of the disc and has to have the right thickness for the screws of the AP bobbin set used. How much float you have is set up by the bobbins used. There are different bobbins for different float requirements. The Bell CAN have cutouts for a better ventilation, but this is not necessary and it´s not the case in almost all bells which are designed and produced by OEM´s, for example BMW. We measured a lot of temperatures to check if there is any need for a more complicated bell design, but it isnt. If you run GP tracks, you are perfectly fine running the bigger CP9665 calipers with 25mm pads and you are not going to have any problem. The Bell of the PFC discs is also flat without any ventilation cutouts, so telling its a bad design without would basically mean the design you now bought is bad as well. So again: In our Kit there is NO design issue. NOTHING is made wrong. Even further: In case of the 378x36 discs which were used in this kit you could have just put the brembo anti rattle hardware off and mount them without. Stating the discs are not making "clicking" noises without the brembo pretension hardware and using this as a proof they are going to click, is again, absolutely mindblowing. And just again a comment to the comparison of the PFC discs with their own system mentioned and used by 24/7 and the AP System of our set: We have 2 customers which both had the PFC System (Schirmer also uses this system) and they switched to AP discs with the float in the disc style. One case is the youtuber Tom Schütze, he switched from 378x35 to 368x36 BTCC AP Racing Discs. The AP discs (while being used) had a life which was around 4-5 times higher then the PFC! This car get´s driven mostly on the nordschleife but also a lot on GP Tracks. IMO it´s one of the fastest (if not the fastest) streetlegal BMW on Bilster Berg. So from my side im really finished now. But I have to recap one last time: We took back a custom made kit, 2 months after it was ordered with discs which look like shit (just to remind again: Those were NEW 378x36 discs, which are 1000€ ++) based on informations, which are wrong. We did took them back just because we did want to make everyone involved happy, we were nowhere forced to take back anything. We even split the kit, so you were able to keep the calipers, which are sold out EVERYWHERE. In my world this would make me write a good review, because i can assure every other shop out there would have decided different. But in your case this leads to spreading wrong information, saying the kit is shit when you did not even try it and continue to do so, when everyone who posted here is telling you, you are in fact wrong. Like i say: Mindblown, absolutely mindblown....

You don’t even get how it’s mounted… the anti rattle clips are mounted on every second bobbin. This is just a design we came up with so that the FLOAT doesn’t make crazy noises. Although I’ve told Karl how it’s mounted you writing only 50% were there shows that you/Karl didnt even get how it’s installed…. And indeed there is float… You had this disc: https://apracing.com/race-car/brake-discs/ventilated-discs/o378mm/36mm-thickness/2400mm-pcd-floating-cp5772-20682069 This gets fixed with CP2494 bobbins which were included in your package. You are just wrong, believe it or not… Last posting from my side here, this speaks for itsself… It’s just crazy we took back those discs and a custom made kit after 2 months and as a thank you this is what you do. Crazy, absolutely crazy.

Its been a long time since I saw someone like you… Again: you are 100% wrong about the floating part. Please show me how a bell for a floating setup in your head has to look. It’s crazy you are still arguing when you are just 100% wrong…. But I’m sure someone else will chime to open your eyes that everything you are thinking to know is wrong. Excited to see what you will say when you found out you’re wrong. https://apracing.com/drawings/cp4135-1cd.PDF About everything else you said: just leave it here so the people will see what’s going on with you. In the end all you are doing is put down yourself Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

What you are writing here is totally wrong… We are using a full floating setup with float in the disc. The only thing we are doing different then almost everybody else is we use anti rattle hardware for the connection from bell to the disc! Why? Because without the disc makes all kind of noises. Stating it’s not fully floating is in fact wrong. 24/7 uses exactly the same calipers but pfc discs. In case of for example tom schütze the pfc discs had almost 1/4 the life of our ap discs and they are almost 4 times more expensive. We have really a lot of crazy fast cars which all run our AP Setups, all perfectly fine since years. Normally I don’t react to such kind of posts because we sell a lot of those kits and every customer is 100% happy and I don’t care what is written…. Here in the forum alone are, I think, around 10 people or more using them. You bought a custom set in September and we made everything happened so you could pick it up. Now, since Karl from 24/7 is telling our setup is not working (which is utterly nonsense) to avoid anyone being unhappy I offered to give back everything besides the calipers. So I took back only half of the parts and kept a fair amount of cash for the calipers. I now have a set of brackets and bells here which are basically unusable because we usually do not sell this kind of setup. Although we would be totally right to neglect giving half of the items, specially made for you, after 2 months back I just did it because, like I said, I just wanted to make everyone happy. Thinking about this alone it’s crazy you write wrong things here telling our brakes are „bullshit“. But on top of that you even brought those discs in looking like they were laying outside in the rain for 2 months- see the pictures. I’m totally blown away by this. Just fyi: anybody who knows something about brakes can clearly see that this is indeed a fully floating setup we sell…. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Wie kommst du darauf ? Unser M2c lief bis Anfang des Jahres auf Serien Mapping. Diese Saison mit unserem Mapping- absolut keinerlei Probleme.

Jetzt sollte es gehen :-P

Und damit der Thread mal wieder seinen ursprünglichen Inhalt zurück bekommt und ihr mich hoffentlich zerreißt, hier mal meine "Hotlap": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJPB6lpIt3g&feature=youtu.be Aber ernsthaft: Ruhig her mit den Infos, wo ihr noch Probleme seht. Ich weiß, dass ich Mausfalle Ausgang die blinde Kuppe Zeit liegen lasse, sowie Vmin in der Mutkurve und Mausfalle unten geringer ist, als sie sein könnte. Ansonsten bin ich eigentlich ganz zufrieden als Nicht Rennfahrer im Beton M2 mit quasi voller Ausstattung :)!

Ich poste ja wenig, aber finde die Diskussion ganz interessant (oder amüsant- schwer zu sagen :-P :-D). Die Aussage mit den Teilen finde ich grundsätzlich richtig, ich versuche meine Kunden auch immer dahingehend zu beraten, dass Sie nicht direkt mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schießen, sondern man genau schauen sollte, was wie wo benötigt wird. Aaaaaaber: Es kommt halt immer auf den eigenen Anspruch an bzw. wie man das Hobby lebt. Viele modifizieren auch einfach, weil es Bock macht beim nächsten Trackday zu merken, was die Mods gebracht haben und das muss nicht zwangsläufig damit einhergehen, dass man die Komponenten vorher schon "ausgelastet" hat.... Und selbst wenn es nur der Vorstellung hier im Forum dient um zu sagen: Ich bin der geilste? Auch das sei doch jedem gegönnt! Also letztlich nimmt hier jeder eine Gewisse Anspruchshaltung ein, seine Art und Weise von Modifikationen als "Richtig" zu erachten- egal ob es nun heißt so wenig wie möglich zu modifizieren und alles erst auszureizen oder eben direkt in die vollen zu gehen... Von daher: Ihr nehmt euch alle nicht viel und auch ich finde die Art einiger User hier absolut uncool und unpassend, da es einfach bei jeder Gelegenheit persönlich wird. Und beim Thema Bremse finde ich den Ansatz erst alles auszureizen, bevor man upgradet, nicht richtig! Denn ihr glaubt gar nicht wie viel schöner es ist, niemals im Kopf haben zu müssen, dass die Bremse schwächelt.... Selbst wenn es nicht schneller macht, es ist einfach ein wirklich gutes Gefühl und bringt (zumindest mir) viel mehr Spaß beim Fahren! Fakt ist einfach: Die neueren Autos kriegen immer größere Bremsscheiben, damit es cool aussieht, aber das Material ist einfach nicht für häufiges Fahren im Kreis gedacht.... Fängt bei kokelnden Staubschutzmanschetten an und hört bei komplett verfärbten Lackierungen auf... Und: So ein Limit einer Bremse zu erfahren kann auch echt übel ausgehen: Ich selbst hatte es bereits 2x, ein Kunde 1x, dass die Bremsflüssigkeit komplett gekocht hat- das führte dann dazu, dass wir auf dem Parkplatz mit Handbremse anhalten mussten, weil KEINE Bremsleistung mehr da war. Bei einem TT-RS (Kunde bzw. Freund) war das ganze so arg, dass es 60min Stillstand brauchte bis das Auto wieder normal bedienbar war. Letztlich hat sich wohl eine Luftblase irgendwo abgesetzt, aber das war wirklich absolut krass. Und wir waren alle baff, dass nicht eine Leitung einen Schaden hatte, weil das Bremspedal über eine Stunde einfach durchgefallen ist..... Alle 3 genannten Fälle sind gut ausgegangen, weil sie sich haaalbwegs angekündigt haben- vom Punkt, dass Fading auftritt bis zum Punkt, dass 0 Bremsleistung mehr da ist, geht es aber schneller als einem Lieb ist und ganz ehrlich: Dann reize ich das Material lieber nicht 100% aus, bevor mir sowas noch einmal passiert :-)!

Du wirst bei Rundenzeiten unter 2Min EGAL mit welcher Kühlung deinen Sattel im Leben nicht bei 180 grad halten können- da würde ich fast drauf wetten! Habe zuletzt einige Temperaturen aufgenommen und 180 Grad ist völlig unrealistisch bei halbwegs schneller Fahrt auf einer Strecke wie Bilster Berg. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Keiner der Wagner Kühler hat eine ABE… der Evo1 hat ein Teilegutachten. Und unserer Erfahrung nach reicht der leider auch bei 400PS nicht… Andi fährt ja auch nicht viel mehr als vllt 460ps und das mit größerem Lader. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Andi fährt den Wagner ;-). Und dieser hat keine ABE…. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Bekommt ihr bei uns (55Parts) auch [emoji106] Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Der am häufigsten verbaute Spurlenker ist von KW, aus Aluminium und hat ein Teilegutachten. Nur so als Einwurf :-).