BMW F21 M135iR aus Dänemark

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[frontside0815 177]

Its been a long time since I saw someone like you…

Again: you are 100% wrong about the floating part.

Please show me how a bell for a floating setup in your head has to look.

It’s crazy you are still arguing when you are just 100% wrong….

But I’m sure someone else will chime to open your eyes that everything you are thinking to know is wrong.

Excited to see what you will say when you found out you’re wrong.

https://apracing.com/drawings/cp4135-1cd.PDF

About everything else you said: just leave it here so the people will see what’s going on with you.

In the end all you are doing is put down yourself


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[Gaskrank 107]

I have no idea what happened, but I know that one of you totally lost its tone...

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[BrianOconner 247]

this is both floating, but different systems

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[frontside0815 177]

You don’t even get how it’s mounted… the anti rattle clips are mounted on every second bobbin.
This is just a design we came up with so that the FLOAT doesn’t make crazy noises. Although I’ve told Karl how it’s mounted you writing only 50% were there shows that you/Karl didnt even get how it’s installed….

And indeed there is float…

You had this disc: https://apracing.com/race-car/brake-discs/ventilated-discs/o378mm/36mm-thickness/2400mm-pcd-floating-cp5772-20682069

This gets fixed with CP2494 bobbins which were included in your package.

You are just wrong, believe it or not…

Last posting from my side here, this speaks for itsself…

It’s just crazy we took back those discs and a custom made kit after 2 months and as a thank you this is what you do. Crazy, absolutely crazy.

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[Kappacino 1.961]

Ehm? Why should there any play between the bells and the discs? This does only noise ?  the only float the disc needs is in the bobbis to expand in diameter when it gets hot. I've heard some rumors some garages around the ring try to covince customers buying their products which has been tested around the ring and been proven. Nevertheless. The J Hook Discs with the bobbins for the float in the discs is one of the top range AP Racing provides. An even if the rattle clips are not made for them, they do the anti rattle very well. As the float is in the discs only for expanding in diameter. If have no idea what is in your mind with some other technical background. It is what it is. Karl will sell you some of his "better" setups and you will end up changing the V3 more often than the ex BTCCs. But everyone is happy. 

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[Kappacino 1.961]

You really think that the slight pressure applied by the anti rattle clips will prevent the discs from expanding while they heat up?!?!?  Come on....

also you could have just remove the rattle clips... but yea as you can see. zero play in no direction, when you dont mount the rattle clips:

 

ex btcc or not, the mounting stuff is the same...

 

bearbeitet 1. Januar 2023 von Kappacino

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[Alex 133]

Do you have some pictures and videos of your issue with the discs? And like Brianoconner mentioned these are to completly different

styles of floating discs you cant even compare.

bearbeitet 1. Januar 2023 von Alex

[TheStig 613]

@VikingPower 

you really talk rubbish

A lot of people, including some who drive around 7 minutes BTG and even faster, use the solution from 55parts. without problems.

simply badmouthing companies here is weak. it makes you an extremely weak person.

time to ignore you, because you don't have to do that nonsense. It's a shame that people like you do "motorsport" and write such rubbish here. Just leave it. It's really ridiculous! Just be happy with your solution and it'll be fine. Do your thing and leave us alone with your bullshit. Thanks :-) …funny boy. :D

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[Fox906bg 5.761]

As already said, you can't compare the different systems.

The discs from my Stoptech STR60 were quite loose, while the discs of my AP CP9668 Setup are totally firm. My kit is NOT from 55Parts, it's the TCR Spec.

This says nothing about movement under heat expansion.

bearbeitet 2. Januar 2023 von Fox906bg

[FllSnd 380]

It's pretty uncool to fight out these things in a public forum. This can lead to misinformation for uninvolved persons. Here in Germany you have to be pretty careful with these kind of accusations. The dealer refunded you partially to make you a happy customer, which under German law he was not forced to do for custom made parts. No need to talk in that way about the product or dealer.

[Gaskrank 107]

How to ruin your own thread with a nonstop rant full of inappropriate personal insults?
VikingPower: Yep!

[VikingPower 506]

Am 2.1.2023 um 10:32 schrieb FllSnd:

It's pretty uncool to fight out these things in a public forum. This can lead to misinformation for uninvolved persons. Here in Germany you have to be pretty careful with these kind of accusations. The dealer refunded you partially to make you a happy customer, which under German law he was not forced to do for custom made parts. No need to talk in that way about the product or dealer.

Im allowed to express my full satisfaction or dislikes of ANY products handed to me, which I have paid for. Likewise are my customers allowed to do the exact same - its called freedom of speech, telling the truth, customer experiences - you name it. 

But its fine, people can buy what ever they want, in the end, there is a HUGE reason to why, you don't see ANY bigger racing teams running this exact product, the design is not good.
If they provided a good product, i would have said so.. Just look through this page, i give credit to whom that deserves it.
Life is pretty simple, you sell bad products - bad reviews will come. You just need to deal with it or make a better product.

What makes 55parts so valid? What have they achieved to make their products valid? Why arent they the company people talk about in the paddock or in the garages? Let me tell you, i haven't heard their name being mentioned ones, when ever I have asked around face 2 face to build me a racecar!

In the end, you buy cheap, you buy twice.. Experience and knowledge can't be bought.. For a few people, that's hard to digest, but today people are so soft.  

bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[xerik 862]

It's okay to not like a product and write a review about it. But you should manage to do it in a non-insulting way.
And you didn't do that, you just stated "its shit and not working".
That's not an opinion.

As many people already said, your statement is technically wrong. That's not problem because everyone makes mistakes. I did many and also claimed something in this exact forum that was just not correct. We are all here to learn, that's the point of this forum.
Just because Karl says this doesn't mean it's correct.
Sorry to tell you, but all those "racing-car-builders" at the Nürburgring think they are some kind of a god-form. Everyone knows everything better and does a better job than the other company.

People in general are so tired of this behavior, it's always the same. You go to a company and they banter about your car which has been build by different people. Doesn't matter if you go to Schirmer, CustomRacetec, 24/7 etc. They are always like "wow who build that shit".
Maybe those companies at the Nürburgring need to chill and settle their personal problems out while having a nice dinner.

It's customers like you with a behavoir like that which make everything worse. Don't do that, be better than that. Just chill and have a nice technical discussion, don't be like Karl or Carl or Tom or whoever.

And, I don't know about 55parts intensions, but maybe they just wanted to be a online-tuning-shop and not a "racecar-team". You talk about like that's a bad thing and you claim, that you don't have any technical knowledge if you don't build racecars. I can tell you, that many of these "raceteams" are building the biggest shitboxes you'll ever see.

 

[Kappacino 1.961]

You name it. If you have a shitty product - shitty reviews will come. there is no other shitty review since now. and there is also no fanboi basement here. These kits are sold for years. Not only from 55 Parts also from other shops with the same setup AND EVEN FUCKING USED IN BTCC RACECARS with that spec. Why should a company who is building racecars in a proper way sell another companies bigbrake kit? One of the first things Karl did was own brakekits as a productrange, yea must be coincidence also i cant see his company brand on high and well known raceteams around. Whatever. The fact how you speak here in a forum with proper technical and lots of try and error knowledge  with the fact you gave away all the work to external companies which might be due to your personal limits in execution and technical knowledge and now talking on a level which is quite condescending to be fair. There is at least 5 people trying to reach you on a high technical way and you still refusing to listen.... sad.

bearbeitet 3. Januar 2023 von Kappacino

[Alex 133]

Where are the photos and videos?

And why are you always telling this with bigger Race teams? What exatly do you mean by that? Which series? Which cars? Which racetracks?

[VikingPower 506]

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bearbeitet 11. Oktober 2023 von VikingPower

[Alex 133]

That you need klicking noises from a floating disc is wrong.

 

And again the PFC Disc is a completly different system in regards to the Bell / Disc Design.

 

Did you make some pictures or videos of the issue or not?

[Bastor 201]

I don't think your complaint is the problem here, but the way you present it.
The Trackday forum is not a "normal gibberish" forum for any car brand. There are a lot of people here who have been in motorsport for years, or are.
Who have built or driven several cars themselves and are also technically - possibly professionally - very versed.

That's why I personally feel your bringing up the problem as a bit clumsy.
I don't think it's anyone's point here that 55parts is on some kind of pedestal, but rather that you communicate below the belt and one gets the feeling that you yourself have no idea of the physical mode of action, but completely trust that another person will give you advice on the brake.

I don't know Karl personally - but there are also good and bad reports about 24/7 Performance. That Karl has thrown over with Schirmer at that time should probably also know.
Karl sells - since recently - repainted / powdered AP (or Brembo ?) calipers with PFC discs ... what you want to think of the color / design: everyone can decide for themselves. But its also just adapted stuff and puzzled.
So in the end he cooks with the same ingredients - how could it be otherwise ?

In summary, I can only sign @xerikcontribution. No matter where you go - every company really doesn't leave a good hair on any work that others have done. When in doubt, certain parts are also always absolute garbage, whether they work or not. But there are of course always better alternatives from the own house. On the ring, everyone is scratching each other's eyes out by now. That's neither funny nor fun.
And each company then usually has one or two "representives" who diligently advertise on insta or YT or elsewhere ... because their cars are better known, or whatever. Wallow then each other in agreements. No offense.

To come back to the actual topic:

You are guilty of all your descriptions of how bad the brake would be, why that should be technically so.

Floating means in this case that the friction ring is not connected as a composite casting with the bell , but is screwed floating.
But floating does not mean that the friction ring must have play.
In which condition at all ?
At room temperature? Or at operating temperature?
And how much play do you want then? 1 hundredth, thousandth or tenth?

How high should the different heat coefficient of the friction ring and the bell as well as the screws be, that in your opinion the limited axial play would lead to cracks?

The disc itself has sufficient clearance in the hole over the bobbins.

Do you even know why one uses floating ? What this means for the caliper and the pads ? And that also disadvantages arise when too much play exists in the discs ?

You constantly write something about racing teams and their solutions, or not. Racing teams rarely drive economically, but functionally. What do you care about the comparison at all. Do you drive Endurance Series, or Karl? Do you drive GP tracks on top times, or NOS ?
Everyone would like to install in doubt the best Equipmemt for his money, no question!
But the endurance comparison is a bit lame. 
Then you should just order the Alcon brake and appropriate discs / bell from the BMW Motorsport program and adjust if necessary, so that they fit. But then you can always drive the appropriate motorsport equivalent.
If you think you would get that at Karl now, you have to be disappointed. There are also "only" AP calipers with adapter X and discs Y installed. PFC builds its friction rings / adapters but different than AP Racing makes it. And even at AP there are different bolting methods under the floating bobbins.

Alternatively, you can build your own brake. Lets you mill adapters (Epytek is a good place to start) and look for a matching bell and friction ring. This is not Rocket Science, but is often sold as such.

In the end, for many simply good braking performance under economic consideration and ease of maintenance is important.

No one wants to forbid you to speak here, but the tone makes the music and with appropriate technical background and a suitable explanation plus picture / video material, you can discuss quite on a fair level here.

I am sure that here a rather interesting discussion would have come about if you would leave the question open and not lift the word of a person/company on the pedestal.