Im driving with a VW T5 2.0 114hp. It drives fine, but when you come to the mountains in fx Kassel or others around Nürburgring where the incline is over several kilometers, the car simply goes to around 80kmhs. That's with a 1480kg car, around 200kg in the VAN too.. I live in the van when out. For me it's not a problem, moving with that slow pace. Straight at 100km/h no problem, fuel consumption around 10-11 liters. I can drive non-stop from my house in Denmark to Nürburgring in 7.5/8 hours with the speed around 100kmh, and still have just a little under than a quarter tank left. I believe the fuel tank on my T5 is 80 liters.   

 

vor 38 Minuten schrieb Boesi:

Because of the colors another thread should urgently be opened.... 

Dude... come on.. 

21 minutes ago Fox906bg wrote:

That's the whole point.

Choosing a line, making full use of the track width and carrying as much speed as possible everywhere are the basic requirements for fast laps, regardless of the car. But you learn that much better in a slow car because you HAVE to!

Modern, powerfully powered vehicles in particular quickly “spoil” these virtues. On the one hand, because you are never required to carry a lot of momentum, for example, because you have the power. On the other hand, of course, everything happens much faster, you have less time to prepare and therefore quickly become sloppy. Less experienced drivers can quickly find themselves overwhelmed and somehow find their way across the track from one corner to the next.

 

 

It is indeed possible to learn to do that in a high powered car too. I did.
I only know one guy who drives the same times as me on our local track, but he has driven that track for 3 years done many trackdays there.

I have done less than 5 trackdays there, and only driven the track in my own car in 2023.
The guy I know did in his M2C with same specs as my car buildwise the exact same time 1:06.1. In his old m140ix, he was exactly 2 secs slower :-D Misha drove his m140i and called it the best 1series he has driven.... Yet, that one series couldnt do lower laptimes than 1:08.1. 
   
Doesn't really matter if the car has 90 or 500hp, if the car feels on the limit because you simply receive zero feedback from it, then you can try fight it all you want or just fix it and move on. 
That's a least how I look on it, and it doesn't mean its correct for you, but for me it was. And now I can naturally drive the car almost without an issue. On the limit its not snappy at all.. 
 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb CZ4A:

I understand what you want to say.

But to clarify my point of view again, if you let a production car drive with a racing driver and then drive yourself, you will notice a difference in the lap time. Just this difference would have to be driven out to be able to retrieve the vehicle potential without changing anything beforehand.

There is no question that the majority here (including me) will never come to the level of a racing driver. However, if you can repeat constant times in the 10th range, you could adjust something. Or how you say yourself, if the car doesn't give enough feedback, just what needs need to be customized. But you only find that out.

I mean that you learn and understand better when you feel what the car does. That you don't like or where you notice it doesn't work as you would like it, you change that.

I do not want to continue discussing meaning or nonsense.

Everyone has their own views and can do whatever they want.

It helped me rebuild my vehicle piece by piece to understand what I was doing and changing and what.

 

 

 

I also understand what you mean
But the racing driver has been driving since he could walk, he has had the right assistance throughout his whole life and has since then, developed a feeling throughout many years.
As a young male, you per nature goes over the limit very often, because the brain is simply not developed enough to understand the risk.
As you get older as you know, you understand consequences a little bit better too, but by then (as a pro driver), you have already developed a technique through the last 20+ years, that you can trust in those sitations when you get into a new car or so.

I don't see the point always chasing the limit on every part you install, in the end, you are still going to build your car to what ever spec your wallet and your desire wants.

But as you said and adviced - change what you don't like - and i did exactly that.
I changed 90% between both license plates, and the car is on a whole different level now, it can make everyone drive fast, because you are being hit really hard with a lot of feedback.
Only stock parts left on the car, are the roof, the doors, the windows, the battery, and the gearbox.

I can dance with the car on the limit on a whole another level on my local track. Im less than 9 seconds of the pace from the lap record here done in a 911 GT3 R, so i find myself not the slowest driver on a familiar track.
 
Yes everyone can do what they want. And there are simply not only one cookie recipe. But advocating that it is best to slowly build your car is in my opinion nonsens. It really depends on what you want to do with the car, and what you expect in return from the car.

interesting that there is differences between ECE approvals. I have to look into that, to see if both my ECE downpipe (HJS) and ECE exhaust (Ego-X) can be operated together without issues. As in DK you can actually have the car seized if they have an idea that the emissions isnt arent met. I would also have to dig deeper into our laws here, regarding the ECE approvals. 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb CZ4A:

You usually go on a track day to improve your driving skills or am I wrong? 

But you don't learn how to drive "correctly" in a fast car. Driving skills should grow with the car. You don't automatically become better at driving if you "improve" the car with any motorsport components.

I don't presume to be able to say how well or poorly - in this case Carsten - can drive. However, some things in the thread read as if it were somewhere between beginner (based on race track experience) and advanced driving skills. 

A fast car doesn't make a fast driver and I would say that the car can do a lot. 

You are both right and wrong, let me explain;
You will never be able to get confident with the car, if the car doesn't speaks to you, am i right or am i wrong?

The lack of feedback on the F21 as a basic upgraded car is astonishing,in my opinion.
Do you ever wonder, why so many owners convert them to widebody? That's probably because the M2 (F87) is a completely different car in terms of dynamic and feedback.
I drove an M2 on track while my car was being build wider and that's when i learned how bad the F2x series handles or the lack of feedback given to the driver.  

I think what you are saying, is very conflicting, 
On my first lap in the car after it was build wider, i immediately shed almost a minute off the laptime around NOS and a few rounds later the engine simply died.
I would normally hang around 9.15min with the basic clubsport upgrade. I manage to do a 8,17 in 2022 in October, that year i did 6 laps in total. 
Last season '23, i managed to go under under 8. (7.51) So i naturally became faster with the faster car, and the reason for this, except driving more, is that i was confident with the car, straight out of the garage, the feedback given to you as a driver, is completely different.

I also drove a friends car last year, in the same weekend i did the sub 8 lap, a M140i with the basic clubsport upgrade too, I drove so slowly in his car because i was lacking a lot of feedback from the tarmac and the grip of the tires. 
But he simply drives the same laptime as me (sub 8) in his car. So the car out of the box, in my hands, are simply lacking a lot, to make me as a driver faster. I have owned other cars, who out of the box gave way more feedback. I dont know what simply is wrong with the F2x chassis, but i personally can't drive that car fast. 

And just to be fully clear, its not only me who has that problem, you see it with racingdrivers too, who isnt comfortable with the car, i know that this is on a higher level. But the theme is the same.  

Sometimes some people just dream about taking a brand new car apart, and convert it to the best it can be in their eyes. 
It seems to be very normal, to buy a car, and convert it very slowly, and people preaching that is the right thing to do. Why?
 
For me personally, i didnt have 70k euro to convert my car, in one go. So that was my "why" to not get it done in one step, otherwise i would have done exactly that.
I guess other would do to, if they had the exact budget laying around just for that. I personally think its more expensive to do things step by step instead of just go all in from the get go.  
I would guess this is why some people with deeper pockets buy cars directly from Schirmer, they ultimately buy the best for the platform, while still being fully road legal and they don't have to think about this and that. They can then spend their brain activity elsewhere, earning more money, spending more time with family/friends or simply just want to be part of the Schirmer thingy for the sake of the "branding". 

I can very much myself relate to Carsten, when i started out converting my own car, i was just in the same rollercoaster as him, figuring out what is good and whats needs to be taken care off, before hitting the track the first time.
So i eventually just started out with the diff, subframe alu bushes, suspension, wheels+tires and brake pads. Because thats what i read on the forums that everyone did. 
For me personally, i didnt gain more confidence in the car. It didnt quite handle or gave feedback to me as a driver. I actually crashed the car 4 times, by having the rear end surprise me. I was lucky everytime, that no damage occured.

So after a while, i started a bigger conversion and me being a little cheap, ultimately cost me an engine after 4 laps of Nordschleife with the car physically bigger. But finally the car was much more predictable easy to drive and so.
So at this point, ive learned to just listen to people who knows a thing or 2 and have actually worked in the field of motorsport. 

I came to a workshop and was allowed to do work on my own cars, sparring with other mechanics while being there. So ive gained a lot of knowledge on how things gets done when you build trackspec cars. 
I know not everyone can or are even allowed to do so, but i'm happy i had the oppotunity with my own car. 
Because on the forums you can only learn so much, but there are always conflicting details, and you never really fully know whats up or why you have this and this problem.
If you ever get the opportunity to pick a motorsports mechanic brain and really suck the info to you, you start to see, they follow a complex, but thin red line pattern, throughout every build. When you then tend to sparring with other guys, who does the same, but with different shops, you clearly see there isnt much of a difference in how they do, because its the same redline they follow more or less. 

The moral of the story is, there is no right and wrong approach to how to convert your car. But you have to find the right pattern to what is optimal for your platform to make it better, and not just different from the series car. 

 

54 minutes ago ///Michl wrote:

Yesterday I read up on the Friedrich Downpipe:

The part has a parts certificate, but only in conjunction with the original MSD+ESD exhaust system from the 431PS model. No competition, no CS. That's out of the question for me because I have a competition.

 

https://www.turboperformance.shop/en/exhaust-technology/downpipes-kats/hjs-down-pipes/bmw/bmw-m2-m3-m4-3.0-euro-6/58980/hjs-downpipe-bmw- s55-m3/m4-cs/gts-f80/f82/f83-3.0-euro-6d-with-opf-ece-90822040-br-br-strong-important-notice/strong-this-is-an-automatic- translation.-please-note-that-only

HJS makes them with ECE approval, so you don't need any papers. So you should be able to combine with any exhaust on the market, which either has ECE or other TÜV approval. 
It is expensive but I can personally say that HJS works really well. I use one on my N55 (300cell).

Edit; I would actually say this M3 sounds really good, even though it doesn't have EL pipes. So it seems that the cats can also do something nicely for the sound of the S55. 

Fully agree @Fox906bg
And remove the stupid burbles too.

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Phil130i:

Schroth explicitly advises against asm + HANS.

Because the ASM break loose in an frontal accident, which means the HANS are not working as intended. Neck injuries can occur when mixing those 2. 

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Paco1M:

do you mean the 4n solution? Yes they're great! Sounding like RB's.. 

The easy solution for me would be a legal exhaust system with EL midpipe.. 

Yes, exactly the 4n Solution! Its absolutely crazy how he can get the engines to sound and work. 

True, but is it possible to have the EL midpipe legal in DE? I know that in DK they are not legal, since no ECE or §21 papers.
What are the cost of the EL?
I think the bull-x complete system are just under 3k euro including the legal controller. It could be an option too, obviously a more expensive way, but i would suspect also a small gain by a little less back pressure and a little weight optimization too. 

I'm just throwing different thinking into the mix.   

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Paco1M:

That's actually the case, through an EL midpipe the S55 vehicles sound exactly like a BMW should sound and how it should have sounded ex works :D 

IMO the best sounding s55 are the ones with single turbos. Daaaaamn... 
Or a destroked n55 from 3.0 to 2.6, with a 8-9k redline. Sounds just like an RB26.

Fro exhaust only mod, 
i would personally go with HG Motorsport Ego-X exhaust, who meets ECE standarts. So no problem on any european roads. And its pretty much a straight pipe from catback, you just have one muffler who silence very good.   

@Carsten

Allright, but there is some very decent concavity on the wheels. He is also a member here, maybe he can throw a few pictures in here for you? @m1nicer40i

so the 285 R888R is basically the same width as an 295 AR-1 I suspect the New M2 will have room for 315 or even 325 on the rear. The front will eat 295 without the biggest issue, im looking forward to follow the big wheels on the G series platform. In a couple of years, some private guys are going all in on them, maximizing the performance.

Yeah the JP SL01 are really tastefully. Unfortunately they dont come in 11x18 et25.

vor 9 Minuten schrieb xerik:

So it is. As long as the quality of the production process does not increase, less weight means less material and therefore less durability, if one now assumes that the rims are equally carefully manufactured (i.e. no arbitrers, air pockets, correct temperatures, etc.).

Of course, when the rims are forged, they can also be made lighter and more delicate because the material density is simply higher by dimensions than with cast wheels.

But even there: If you look at how "heavy" partly forged bikes are from Porsche, for the M-cars (e.g. the 18 Zöller Fuchs rims on the M2 are also forged wheels) or motorsport rims, that's no coincidence.

Protrack rims are simply normal casting rims which are of no better quality than rims from Autec, Japan Racing, Rial or Motec.
With the wider dimensions, it is flow-forming (as with Autec, Motec, etc.), but is still far away from a real forged wheel. I therefore also know ETLICHE people who have crooked Protrack rims. The only advantage is that (at least as far as I know) the rims do not break, but become crooked relatively quickly. You can see this without great security risk and simply buy a new rim, since they are relatively cheap.

Every protrack is crooked :-D If its not, something is wrong with that wheel.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb r20832:

Are there papers for the king or the JR papers? We speak of track rims, for touris (and one or the other track day) the things must be registered when Mans takes closely, but still be registered.

There are TüV for the JR, the friend of mine is from Stuttgartt, and everthing regarding his wheels are in the papers.
https://www.japanracing.de/TUV-Wheels/Japan-Racing-Wheels-SL-01-Matt-Black-18x10-5-inch::2585.html

Im not sure about the König though, since i don't have any german friends running those. In DK where im from, tüv on wheels does not exist.

@Carsten
The lightest wheel out there, for very decent money, i have only found König hypergram to sit at the very top.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1bnF7yKuE0qOBN5akpSN_D1c6I2h0XhRSfMRc0/

Erik compared these to Protrack One, and they where size for size, around 2kg lighter on each corner = around 8Kg less rotational mass. 

Another option for you, if you really like the design of the Edelweiss but want durabillity for the track then i guess the answer are Japan racing SL-01.
A friend og mine has ran these on his 1er and still do, both riding curbs like a maniac used them daily (he has 2 sets) and they are still straight and fine. And for almost 1000eur a set, its almost unbeatable on price.
Here is a couple of links to his wheel setup 10.5x18 295 square setup
https://www.instagram.com/p/CiQPPjuqx-u/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CtR0Kivq-H7/

I suspect direzza and CR-s are the most optimal tires for such a heavy car, Carsten. A052 is a very soft compound, which doesn't like to be driven continuously when the outside temps are warmer than degrees 20c. 
I don't know if the CR-S which is on the market now has E markings, otherwise direzza have those. 265/295 CR-S will cost about 1300eur + VAT. 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Boesi:

You have airbags!! 

 

No 
 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Fox906bg:

Unfortunately, that is precisely a misjudgment.
The safety concept of a vehicle was developed in great detail at the factory.
If you only change one component (e.g. belts), you have to look at the whole thing again.

The same applies to motorsport vehicles.
The whole concept only works as it should if all components are coordinated with one another.

For example, a retrofitted 4/6P belt keeps the upper body in the seat in the event of a frontal collision.
However, the head snaps forward.
Now you could of course say that the airbag catches this anyway.
However, the effective range of the airbag is designed for a 3P belt or an upper body falling towards the steering wheel.
And now you have two “separate” concepts that no longer work together.

But please don't misunderstand me, I don't want to attack or patronize anyone, in the end everyone has to decide for themselves.

With Scroth profi II ASM you have 50mm of room in the belt to move forward when the belt snaps its sewing points in a frontal crash. So with that type of belt, you should be able to reach the airbag, just like you do with a 3P belt, since these ones, also tigthen you into the seat when you hit hard on the brakes.
You can see extreme examples of that in the Polestar 2 when its on track and you are hitting the brakes hard, it belt almost tighten you so hard, that you have a hard time breathing.
 
So back to the Scroth ASM system, its actually FIA approved in 4 point usage, but when you add the 5/6 point, FIA approval is gone. You can't use HANS system either with that. So in my opinion, its basically a useless belt unless you use it in a road vehicle with full airbags, and that's how i guess Carsten will use his newly ordered M2. But as soon you want to remove the airbags, its a stupid belt to use. 
And some performance companies supply that belt into a fully racespec street car who has no airbags inside.
You don't have to be a genius to figure out whats wrong with that.  
 

vor einer Stunde schrieb xerik:

You don't have to worry about that at all. The standard seats are guaranteed to have greater strength and crash safety than any bucket seat you can buy (except perhaps any carbon/Kevlar seats). It starts with the running rails, which are easily five times as robust as the Recaro or Sparco running rails, which wobble around even when stationary, and continues with the seat frame, which is a steel frame, compared to GRP with glued-in pissel threads like most of them Bucket seats.

Its crazy to think about how lose and wobbly a Recaro seat really is.. Or bucket seats in general.. Shouldnt be too complicated for the companies, to add a small threaded nut insert on the bottom of the seat and then you can simply mount an X brace connected in the midlle and in the all 4 corners of the side adapters. Then its fully fixed and no more wobbling around.  

My 1st ever racetrack experience back in 2020.
Found this old gem, where karma hits hard. 

 I basically say to my wife, car drives so good and predictable, that we have taken off the traction control.. 1 lap later, sppun out.. 

Happy new year folks, remember, karma is just around the next corner. 

Nürburgring_GP_2020.mp4

Enginebay are now fully closed off into the interior.
A small but very welcoming side effect for doing so, are an additional weight saving of 313grams compared to OEM materials, used in the same places.
I'm starting to develope an addiction to carbonfiber..  

I don't really think it has been expensive either to build these 2 parts. 
A strip of 25cm x 1m 650gr carbon fiber clotch + 37.5 gram hardener mixed with 125gr epoxy resin. + 50 gram PVA mold release. 

Now i can continue working on the cold air feed to the cabin.  

Today, i demolded the carbon. 

So with the 650gr cloth it makes the surface just a little ruff, but for where the part is going to be mounted, its function over form anyway. 
The whole thing is 1,35mm thick and is just flexible and strong enough for the application where its mounted. Great Succes! 
Eventually i will drill a big 4" hole into it to mount an airhose to the blower, which i plan to mount in the upcoming days too.
Plan is to make an enclosure in the engine compartment on a later time, so it can draw fresh air from the outside. I'm still thinking about, where i want to draw the air from, i see 2 posibilities, 1 is from the underside of the windscreen like the M240 cup car have or suck the air from the wheelwell, i see pros and cons on both solutions, so i will have to think more on this subject.   

Haha.. The salesman just have to live with it 😁 i think both choices are cool. But i would drool everytime i saw the m2 in black with exposed carbon fiber details. Would be very hardcore. But not sure if its too stealth for the track.. Depends on the person in front really.. Even my car can disappear in peoples mirrors 🫠

Black on black is brutal as fuck.. Very aggressive looking.. 🤑