Der Semislick Thread

[Henning 526]

Sorry, I’m not too informed on the tyre but did I understand it correctly that it is positioned slightly below (worse) than the AR1?

If it is not as noisy on the track, maybe it will be nice to try. Currently using the Cup2 and would like to try either the new Goodyear, CR-S or A052

[RingTCR 80]

Es gibt mehrere Entwicklungsstufen vom cr-s die neueste V2 von 2023 soll sogar schneller und haltbarer sein als der Platzhirsch re71rs in Asien und Amerika. Der Preis z.b in 245/40-18 bei Protrack wird bei 299€ liegen, a052 bekommt man gerade für ca. 250€. Wenn der Cr-s 20-30 Prozent länger hält als der a052 dann lohn es sich schon.

[MCK 157]

Laut Nankang soll der CR-S schneller und Haltbarer als der AR-1 sein:

„Der CR-S ist ein schnellerer Reifen als AR-1, aber auch ein konsistenterer Reifen. Darüber hinaus ist es auch so konzipiert, dass es noch straßenbenutzerfreundlicher ist, mit besserem Fahrkomfort, geringerem Lärm und besser bei nassen Bedingungen als der AR-1“

 

Quelle:

https://www.nankangtyre.co.uk/products/motorsport/cr-s/

Ich werd ihn bestellen sobald verfügbar.

bearbeitet 24. Dezember 2023 von MCK

[Maody66 2.546]

Ha, das sind ja gleich drei Zielkonflikte auf einmal.

Oder mehr...

bearbeitet 24. Dezember 2023 von Maody66

[Kappacino 1.969]

Am 23.12.2023 um 08:38 schrieb VikingPower:

It seems that the Nankang CR-S should already be available in Germany by January. Are any of you considering driving the tire for next season? 
 

nope has been postponed. you can get some in NL but still not street legal

 

[Patty 965]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb MCK:

Laut Nankang soll der CR-S schneller und Haltbarer als der AR-1 sein:

„Der CR-S ist ein schnellerer Reifen als AR-1, aber auch ein konsistenterer Reifen. Darüber hinaus ist es auch so konzipiert, dass es noch straßenbenutzerfreundlicher ist, mit besserem Fahrkomfort, geringerem Lärm und besser bei nassen Bedingungen als der AR-1“

 

Quelle:

https://www.nankangtyre.co.uk/products/motorsport/cr-s/

Ich werd ihn bestellen sobald verfügbar.

Und Schneeflockensymbol hat er auch, nehme ich an?

[QL-Performance 86]

Und die Möglichkeit zur Montage von Spikes.

bearbeitet 24. Dezember 2023 von QL-Performance

[piwo 40]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb MCK:

Laut Nankang soll der CR-S schneller und Haltbarer als der AR-1 sein:

„Der CR-S ist ein schnellerer Reifen als AR-1, aber auch ein konsistenterer Reifen. Darüber hinaus ist es auch so konzipiert, dass es noch straßenbenutzerfreundlicher ist, mit besserem Fahrkomfort, geringerem Lärm und besser bei nassen Bedingungen als der AR-1“

 

Quelle:

https://www.nankangtyre.co.uk/products/motorsport/cr-s/

Ich werd ihn bestellen sobald verfügbar.

 

 

Bullshit. 

The tread pattern itself says that the tire is to be more street than track, i.e. there are more circumferential grooves to drain water, and the fact that the tire is supposed to be more durable also means that it is supposed to be slower.

 

 

bearbeitet 24. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[RingTCR 80]

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/why-is-nankang-is-going-all-in-on-the-sportnex-crs/
 

interessanter Beitrag.

[Frittiersalon 738]

Der CR-S war dieses Jahr der Exclusivreifen im Lotus Cup Europe.

https://www.lotuscupeurope.com/tyres-nankang-cr-s

[M.R. 589]

Hab mir nen Satz AD09 für mein Clubsport geholt, der Renner darf mal die FZ201 in Soft testen. Bin gespannt.

[piwo 40]

It's stupid "

Tyre Pressures:

	Front	Rear
Minimum Pressure (Cold):	21psi (1.45bar)	21psi (1.45bar)
Suggested Pressure (Hot):	29psi (2.0bar)	29psi (2.0bar)

"

How? In lotus  front is 350kg rear is 550kg and after some laps  when we put 1,45bar on cold we will get in front  about 1,8 bar ( from 20 °c to 55 °c ) and in rear 2 bar ( from 20°c to 75°c). Front always have about 20°c less than rear. So front need softer compound or different presures. So i don't read such stupid things and I prefer practice tests, especially those who win competitions.

[VikingPower 513]

On December 24th, 2023 at 6:28 PM, Kappacino wrote:

nope has been postponed. you can get some in NL but still not street legal

 

All right! Just saw both Misha and a dealer from NL saying its available by Jan, to the public. But the danish official importer hasn't got any confirmation from Nankang yet. 
So it seems a lot of rumors are being spread or some companies are just able to get them and sell them before any official statement is due. 

@piwo _ That test doesn't really say much. I really don't believe that the ad09 are faster than AR-1 and I don't believe CR-S are slower than AR1, not when you see other tests and also one in our group drove the AD09 this summer, and he didn't find it faster than AR1, more or less on par.

But it is important to know that thread wear is not the same as tire grip. Just look at the thread of the A052, basically the same thread layout as CR-S and is also a TW200, but has nearly the speed as the Direzza. But compound is soft as butter. They really overheat during the summer. In early spring and late fall, they seem to be the best tires, when temps are still low. 

bearbeitet 25. Dezember 2023 von VikingPower

[piwo 40]

whoever overheats, overheats.  I have 215/40r17 on an axle weighing 350kg and it doesn't overheat.  If someone's tire width is incorrectly matched to the axle weight, this can happen.  It's better to have a soft and wide tire than a narrow and hard one.  If someone's axle weighs 800 kg, it's clear that they need to install size 355 so as not to overheat the A052.

thread wear for example TW200 means nothing. Avon zzr has tw20 and 

Lasts 5 times longer then 200tw a052. 

There is no point in looking at tread wear at all because it means absolutely nothing. 

I guess only people with zero experience look at this indicator at all.

I understand that it would be like measuring the hardness of the compound with the Shore index.

 

I wouldn't generalize.  too many variables.  one will test at -3 degrees camber, the other at -1.  in one size the tire may be faster than in another, just like ar1, in sizes up to 17 there is no aramid cord or like this crs test one year slower then other or with cup2 where the n2 versions are much faster than the size not available in any production car 225/45r17 (I  had and it is slow tire), the same  In an RWD car, a given tire may have a different performance than in a FWD car.  so I guess the experience of people with a given size on a given car and its configuration is the most important.  although such things as durability and tire operating temperatures are rather consistent for a tire model.

 

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[VikingPower 513]

vor einer Stunde schrieb piwo:

whoever overheats, overheats.  I have 215/40r17 on an axle weighing 350kg and it doesn't overheat.  If someone's tire width is incorrectly matched to the axle weight, this can happen.  It's better to have a soft and wide tire than a narrow and hard one.  If someone's axle weighs 800 kg, it's clear that they need to install size 355 so as not to overheat the A052.
That's not true. It is not always better to have a wider and softer tire it depends on a lot more things. And a 355 tire for an axle load of 800kg is simply not true either.
“Tires are the most important.  A narrower, but better (compound, construction, tread design, etc…) tire will, to a point, generally outperform a wider, inferior tire”.  

 

thread wear for example TW200 means nothing. Avon zzr has tw20 and 

Lasts 5 times longer then 200tw a052.  

There is no point in looking at tread wear at all because it means absolutely nothing. 

Well, thats true. And i stand corrected. BUT, you are comparing a Medium/Hard compound to a tire with a soft compound, so its not really a surprice that the Avon ZZR would last longer than the Soft compound A052. The soft compound would also outperform the ZZR in wet and colder conditions.  Where as the ZZR would probably be more ideal when the track is HOT.

I guess only people with zero experience look at this indicator at all.

Are you always this direct and unfriendly to everyone you speak with online?
A lot of people tend to look at the tread wear for some indications. Its not all companies, who under shoot the tread wear, like Avon does. And its completely legal to do so, but its not legal to overshoot, so i guess its a measure for them to say, (in the event of tires just competely disappears after a few stints) that the tires are TW20, so its just a quali tire. Just speculations really. 
I think most tire companies that we all use in here, use some sort of a rating that tells the true story of the tires, if they are used in the enviroment they are designed for (weight of car, size of tire, correct air pressure for the car etc.)

I understand that it would be like measuring the hardness of the mixture with the Shore index

I will recommend you to read this article, all 5 pages.
Then you will see that you are in some cases both right and wrong. 
Can you please share, how and what formula you used to calculate the 800kg axle load, would be ideal for a 355 tire?
I wonder why BMW with their M240i cup, only drive on 260/660 tires. Power & weight 340hp and 1535kg 
Or why the BTCC BMW 125i running 245/650 which are built with push rod suspension, and full tubeframe almost like a GT3 car. Power & weight 350hp and 1205kg  

https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/

 

[piwo 40]

I had zzr with a64 compound and a24 compound. Both are 20 treadwear ;) a64 is medium and it's good to 70°c , a24 soft and it's to 50° c. A052 it's to ~65°c no more. 

Wider tire warms up slower. So if we have softer compound but give wider tire we will not overhit.

Softer compound is faster in it optimal temperature than harder compound in it optimal tempetature so 285mm a052 60°c will be faster than 235mm 03g h1 90°c

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[VikingPower 513]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb piwo:

I had zzr with a64 compound and a24 compound. Both are 20 treadwear ;) a64 is medium and it's good to 70°c , a24 soft and it's to 50° c. A052 it's to ~65°c no more. 

Wider tire warms up slower. So if we have softer compound but give wider tire we will not overhit.

Softer compound is faster in it optimal temperature than harder compound in it optimal tempetature so 285mm a052 60°c will be faster than 235mm 03g h1 90°c

A24	MEDIUM COMPOUND FOR SINGLE SEATER, SPORTSCAR AND SIDECAR CIRCUIT SLICK APPLICATIONS.

 

A60	MEDIUM COMPOUND FOR SALOON CAR CIRCUIT SLICK APPLICATIONS.

somehow the a64 are not listed on their website. 
But none of the above are a soft tire though. 

 

https://www.avontyres.com/en-gb/tyre-care/motorsport-technical-data/Compounds/

You failed to answer my questions on the formula used for the calculating the axle load vs the tirewidth. 

A softer compound does not necessaryly means faster lap times. But it overheats faster though.
Remember - Softer compound does not always equal faster lap times

That is why you rarely see F1 cars use soft tires, when they are on tracks where ambient temp is higher, the tires simply disappears before they even get to get a full lap in. That is also why quali is mostly done in the evening time, when the sun is setting and temperatures starts to lower.  
Your numbers works only when you take a much larger tire, but you fail to acknowledge that most cars running a 235 tire, can't fit a 285 tire. So your point doesnt really matter, does it?
For your scenario it takes a 20% bigger tire to even be able to have the same heat management but again you dont take into consideration that a soft tire, still will run out of optimal temp faster than the harder compound smaller tire. 

Soft tires are good for wet and cold or very short stints. Medium/hard is good for warm and longer stints. Doesnt matter the tire size, as long you are within reason. 

Now, please try to show everybody the calculation you did, to say that a 355 tire is the optimal tire for 800kg axle load. 

[piwo 40]

Because they don't go to box after 1 lap.  when fighting for the fastest lap in qualifying, the softest available compound is always chosen. Wider tire we can put allways. just install widened wheel archesa nd wider rims

I think 2kg for axle / 1mm  is max for a052 in long term track ( track temperature ~30°c., -3° camber, wide rim, 2 bar on hot ) ( it's my opinion,  no calculations)

For 03g h1 it will be ~3kg/1mm

If we cann't do wider tire we din't put soft tire like a052 and choose harder like 03g h1 

unless the track is short or cold

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[VikingPower 513]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb piwo:

Because they don't go to box after 1 lap.  when fighting for the fastest lap in qualifying, the softest available compound is always chosen.

Still circling a away from answering simple questions :-D 

[piwo 40]

vor einer Stunde schrieb piwo:

A24	MEDIUM COMPOUND FOR SINGLE SEATER, SPORTSCAR AND SIDECAR CIRCUIT SLICK APPLICATIONS.

 

A60	MEDIUM COMPOUND FOR SALOON CAR CIRCUIT SLICK APPLICATIONS.

somehow the a64 are not listed on their website. 
But none of the above are a soft tire though. 

 

https://www.avontyres.com/en-gb/tyres/zzr#page-2

Full specs

 

 

Zitat

I wonder why BMW with their M240i cup, only drive on 260/660 tires. Power & weight 340hp and 1535kg 
Or why the BTCC BMW 125i running 245/650 which are built with push rod suspension, and full tubeframe almost like a GT3 car. Power & weight 350hp and 1205kg

because they have regulations,  reduce costs?

 

Don't you believe that they would be faster with 300/650 and softer tire?

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[racy_estate 159]

vor einer Stunde schrieb piwo:

I think 2kg for axle / 1mm  is max for a052 in long term track ( track temperature ~30°c., -3° camber, wide rim, 2 bar on hot ) ( it's my opinion,  no calculations)

For 03g h1 it will be ~3kg/1mm

Well, do you have any examples for those calculations? Like literature or something else? Maybe i missed it. 
A few things are going through my head: How do you define long term track? According to your calculation, every clubsport car without any lightweight-features needs more then 295,315,325 tires? Or am i wrong here? Facts: The A052 is not the classic "long term track" tire, as you already mentioned. Used on heavier cars its a powerful hotlaps-tire indeed. But i think its wrong to break the whole process of choosing a tire down to a single value. Thats way too easy. Especially, again you already mentioned it, because every setup and driver is so different.
 

[piwo 40]

Of course. For example there are cars without wheel arches, such as Caterham, which cools down the tires.  in the same way, abs and tcs allow you not to burn tires.  Big aerodynamics increases the pressure on the tire and its heating.  track configuration also affects.  long straights allow the tires to cool. Someone has toe 0 one has toe 30' and it hit a lot. a lot of variables and everyone has their favorite types of tires for a given car and track.

 

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von piwo

[VikingPower 513]

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb piwo:

https://www.avontyres.com/en-gb/tyres/zzr#page-2

Full specs Does not show A64's type of compound soft/medium/hard etc.

 

 

because they have regulations,  reduce costs? We can only speculate. Fact is, they use the "narrow size" because it works for the application.

 

Don't you believe that they would be faster with 300/650 and softer tire? No, not necessarily. It depends on a lot of factors. A wider tire, has less load on the tarmac, which could mean it would release its grip faster and more unpredictable. If bigger always meant better/faster, it would be easy to just go up in size.
But at some point, bigger slows you down. That could be things like higher rolling resistance, less mechanical grip even with softer compound, harder to achieve operating window of the tires. So its not as simple, as what you want it to look like.
It is simply not that a Softer is a Faster or more durable tire. There are no such thing. Which is why there are different compounds for different weather temps and weather conditions.   
  

 

bearbeitet 26. Dezember 2023 von VikingPower

[Rallyedriver 196]

Am 24.12.2023 um 14:25 schrieb MCK:

Laut Nankang soll der CR-S schneller und Haltbarer als der AR-1 sein:

„Der CR-S ist ein schnellerer Reifen als AR-1, aber auch ein konsistenterer Reifen. Darüber hinaus ist es auch so konzipiert, dass es noch straßenbenutzerfreundlicher ist, mit besserem Fahrkomfort, geringerem Lärm und besser bei nassen Bedingungen als der AR-1“

 

Quelle:

https://www.nankangtyre.co.uk/products/motorsport/cr-s/

Ich werd ihn bestellen sobald verfügbar.

Naja. Das Nankang das sagt, ist ja jetzt keine Überraschung. Da meinte man bei einführung des AR1 auch, der könnte dem Direzza paroli bieten. Die Realität sah dann doch etwas anders aus!

Für mich wäre da ein Yokohama A050 deutlich interessanter!
 

[piwo 40]

A050 hasn't e mark.